Monday, October 24, 2011

Overlay District Update

Dear Reservoir Homeowners,

We hosted many meetings recently to discuss an Overlay District for the Reservoir area. At those meetings all have been in favor of seeking an Overlay District.

We have many subdivisions in the Reservoir area that are different from others. Some are old, some are new, some have strong Homeowner Groups, some have none, some have very expensive homes, some less expensive, but are all are joined by a common theme, a desire to see the Reservoir area continue to prosper.

All of us realize that events that happen in any subdivision in our area will impact all of us. We are not islands, we are similar to links in a chain. We are as strong or as beautiful as our weakest link. Areas deteriorate one house, one street, and one subdivision at a time, when this happens, how long would it be before we could loose the entire Reservoir Area.

The Reservoir in my opinion has four major arteries, Highway 471, Grant’s Ferry, Old Fannin-Northshore, and Highway 25. The heart of the Reservoir to many is Spillway Road. Many houses in that area are 30 to 40 years old and as all older houses need some attention.

Our goal is to enact some ordinances in the proposed Overlay District that can help older subdivisions and at the same time include precautionary measures that will be helpful with new subdivisions that are not currently experiencing problems.

The meetings have identified four broad concerns that need to be addressed.
  1. How do we maintain rental property at the same level of attractiveness as other homes in the area?
  2. What can be done to improve the appearance of some lots and homes?
  3. What can we do to keep our streets clear for emergency vehicles?
  4. How can we restrict the use of commercial property that could adversely impact our area?

We will be meeting with the PRV and Rankin County Board of Supervisors to see if they will endorse the concept of an Overlay District for the Reservoir Area only. Hopefully the concept of an Overlay District will be adopted and the Board of Supervisor’s would proceed to gather community input from all.

I encourage each of you to participate in those discussions that will lead to specific ways to address concerns for our area.

We must all be active as we search for ways to see our “little piece of heaven” continue to prosper.

Respectfully,

Homer Burns
President, Federation of Reservoir Homeowner’s

The Rez News
Ross Barnett Reservoir

95 comments:

Anonymous said...

Homer,

Why not help the folks who do not have an HOA start one in these older areas. Why impact a larger area with your enactment of more ordinances/government/oversight?

Also, commercial interests are correctly dealt with through a Chamber of Commerce, NOT an HOA or quasi-HOA (read: overlay district).

Anonymous said...

There are some neighborhoods with a large amount of rental property where landlords will fight any attempt to form an HOA and will fight to prevent any effort to stop the deterioration of the housing stock in the district. Landlords are in the business of making a profit. That means the rental units will decay as they did in west and south Jackson.

Also, HOA covenants are difficult to enforce. They are civil contracts. It is a criminal matter to violate an ordinance.

Preservation of the reservoir cannot be accomplished by HOAs. If something isn't done, the Rez will continue to spiral into the next South Jackson.

And I'm not Homer.

Anonymous said...

9:23, you're funny.

How are those who live in neighborhoods without HOAs going to form an HOA and file covenants to the land records without approval from a supermajority of the neighborhood? Be realistic here. The owners of rental property will not allow that....and don't be naive, that area is full of rentals. Step outside your box and consider for a moment if that area continues its downward spiral. Look what will CONTINUE to come with it: crime, boarded up/unattended homes, and folks that will not make good neighbors. You can hibernate in your shell all you want, but eventually that depressed area will affect your home value. Anybody want to live next to South Jackson?

Additionally, any Chamber of Commerce will have zero to do with self-regulating commercial property; it goes against their interest. It is up to the citizens to make sure someone is held accountable for commercial development. Until recently, any/all commercial development in this area has gone unchecked. It has been an absolute free for all commercially. Which is why Old Fannin and Spillway are such eyesores...they have no vision or direction when it comes to development. Lakeland as well. All we are asking for is vision. That the land have a purpose, and that purpose be in sync with development around it.

This isn't about "gubment" takeover of property rights. It's about building and maintaining our area with vision and purpose for the betterment of all. I don't want to be the next Madison by any means, but I do want this area keep and expand its personality. After all, we have so much to offer the metro area: outdoor lifestyle and shopping and restaurants. You can't get all of that in one location on the other side of the big water.

Anonymous said...

More government. NO! Criminalize civil behavior. NO! Pay for enforcement through new "taxes" or "dues". ABSOLUTELY NO!

Anonymous said...

I would think you would read a little deeper into the dialogue that has already transpired here. There is a good deal of information here.

The re-positioning of the items the FRH is supporting has not changed the basic facts of this push.

Your fear-mongering about property values may be the case over there inside the Spillway area, but in the newer neighborhoods, the HOA's are doing well.

I also know from discussion with other HOA's that the larger HOA's are opposed to this. Leveraging neighborhoods where strong, active, vibrant HOA's already exist to achieve your ends is just not going to happen.

I know you are concerned for your property values, but frankly it is your problem. Please do not impose your restrictions and government oversight/enforcement/policing of my neighborhood. We are just fine. That is why I chose NOT to move to your area.

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5000131344638904415&postID=6136472941897321739&isPopup=true

Anonymous said...

Hang on to that 1:58. The Rez will be south Jackson in 10 years.

BTW...there are no new taxes involved in this. No "civil behavior" will be criminalized. And there is no "new" government.

Anonymous said...

If I wanted to live in a subdivision with a HOA, I would! This sounds like those who live in subdivisions with HOAs attempting to impose the covenants that they may like on the rest of us. Fankly, I don't want some busybody telling me what kind of mailbox I have to have or how short my grass has to be or what kind of vehicle I can keep at my home. If you want to live in Madison, it's not far!

Anonymous said...

We're gonna be better than Madison as soon as we can force you to cut your grass.

Anonymous said...

2:05, you are correct. There has been a good deal of information stated on this site. Too bad most of it is incorrect.

I don't live in the older neighborhoods off Spillway. However, I do live in this area in a subdivision with enforced covenants. Most of us can see past our noses and realize that if all of this area isn't kept to a certain minimum standard (it isn't), then it does affect the rest of us. Rankin County will not pick up the slack where the PRV land stops. And I really don't want a "Yeah, but look at Spillway" excuse should I ever have to sell my home. Depressed property values aren't red herrings, nor are they empty threats. It will happen, and more than likely sooner than we all think.

I should know, since I moved here from South Jackson.

Chris Merck said...

doubters and naysayers...
First, I'd suggest you bone up on some facts and research prior to posting negative and false statements on this matter.
Also, I hope as well as assume that y'all have gone to the meetings posted on this site so your constructive input can be considered.
If you would like some working, successful examples of an overlay district, just ask.
The rez on the Rankin side is unique and not to be compared with Madison. Why? Because the Madison county side of the rez has city planning departments and laws in place that guide those areas on things from cohesive designs for signage to optimal land usage b/c they are in the incorporated cities of Ridgeland & Madison while our side is a mix of PRV governed area (for the most part north side of Spillway Rd) and county governed area (mostly southside of Spillway Rd) and no incorporated city municipality with differing planning, zoning, laws, etc., like on the Madison county side.
This equates to one area not sharing the same laws, ordinances, planning, site planning, zoning, etc., all thrown together.
Further complicating this is the fact that the PRV-governed area is managed by a state run entity while the county run entity is run by county supervisors. Needless to say, this point is very important to consider and is twofold. On one hand, the PRV, as a state entity, is governed by 14 folks from 5 different counties and several state departments. On the other, the county is run by 5 supervisors representing the entire county of Rankin.
Stating the obvious, the needs, concerns, oversight, direction, and vision for our Rankin county side of the rez -considered for this potential Overlay district- are in no way being addressed due to our unique predicament. Per our unique situation, the PRV, which encompassess multiple counties, and our county, which governs 5 districts, are not dessigned to address our area.
Despite the fact it's one inclusive, physically designed area, the state side can't address it because they govern the whole of multiple counties on PRV land and the county can't address because it would impact the entire county.
Thus the need for an Overlay district...basically a set of ordinances protecting this and only this finite area of the Rez.
As a real estate broker and son of a parent who has a graduate degree in this area (who has done this very same thing in Huntsville, Al, Fort Worth, Tx, the city of Jackson, and a few other areas), I know without a doubt the benefit of this concept and welcome its application to our area.
Questions? Feel free to call me or email me.
I'm a leaseholder, as are my parents and sibling.

Anonymous said...

Why would successful home owner's associations not want this?
Makes no sense.
The HOAs are not weakened by this.
Ask the folks in the area formerly known as "Fashionable Northeast Jackson" what happens when everything around them deteriorates.
The "newer" neighborhoods are not immune from the coming blight.
Residents there will be doing what the people along Ridgeway Road are doing, living in denial.

Anonymous said...

I live in a older neighborhood off Spillway next door to a person who does not mow his grass, parks several cars on the driveway, yard, and street. Drags up old cars and parks them in his back yard along with other clutter and has a fence that is falling down. He never paints or repairs his house. The covenants for this subdivision were written to protect the developer and not the homeowner and we have no HOA.

He not only drags down the value of my house, but also drags down the neighborhood and all the other neighborhoods around us. There is a development close by that has had buyers say that they would have bought a house they liked if it was not for our neighborhood next door.

I see the OD as a way of rooting out the slobs and slum lords and have the property meet a standard.

For all of you negative folks above come to the meetings and voice your opinions and furnish us with your solutions to the issues.

Anonymous said...

I know of two of the larger HOA's have said no to this, the discussion is kinda' irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

Who is not telling the truth October 24, 2011 2:14 PM?

From Homer:
Our goal is to enact some ordinances in the proposed Overlay District that can help older subdivisions and at the same time include precautionary measures that will be helpful with new subdivisions that are not currently experiencing problems.

I believe the operative word is ordinance and you intend to enforce it how? With fines. It is criminalizing the behavior under the proposed Overlay District, otherwise it is a civil matter to be dealt with inside of an HOA. Your attempt to misinform is disingenuous at best.

RWX said...

to 5:37:

If you live in the PRVWSD, you can file a complaint for most of those things.

Anonymous said...

Given RWX's comment, why do we need an overlay district? The four reasons stated by the FRH are smoke and mirrors to incorporate a government agency powered by those who are proposing it. Open your eyes.

There are agencies and processes already in place to govern the concerns.

Let me put it this way, read the following statement and what are they really saying?

What can we do to keep our streets clear for emergency vehicles?

Read: Lets make parking on the street sound more ominous than just a nuisance.

I would love for the FRH to cite one case where a parked car on the streets of the Reservoir residential area caused an inability for emergency vehicles to access a fire, a heart attack, a burglary. Just one.

Chris Merck said...

Subdivisions, just like cities, have a life cycle. At a certain age, they begin to decay, go stagnant, and then die. Read: get older, see deferred maintenance, stop appreciating, then worse.
Unless, you have a combination of elements such as strong zoning as well as other factors. Factors being things like historical value, location (ie, Belhaven), physical factors like land or being on/near the water, as is our case.
We have the latter but also need the former to keep the area from fulfilling this life cycle.

Anonymous said...

to RWX: I don't live in the PRV area.

The county has a few ordinances, but not enough. You know of two large HOA who had said NO to the overlay.

May I ask how they think the areas around them in decline is not going to distract from their property.

I have been to the meetings and have not heard any HOA announce that they don't need the OD. Even if they are in the OD it will have no change to them enforcing their coventants in their subdivision.

The ordinance is enforced with fines. So are the coventants in the newer HOAs. Both the ordinance and the coventants are inforced in the justice court system. But at this time there is no ordinances for the older subdivisions and no way of getting coventants written that would be meaningful.

If you know of a way, we would welcome you to attend the next meeting and disclose it to us.

Anonymous said...

Actually, your perception is a bit skewed Chris.

If I want to buy a rehabbed house, I would target a neighborhood that has been in decline and realize the upside. Neighborhoods have a life cycle where this normally occurs.

Another thing, there are a number of homes over there that are unsaleable b/c of foundation issues. I don't know about you, but if I bought a home and this type of damage occurred and I was having to spend an additional $40k out of my pocket, I would consider renting it until the repairs could be affected. How does the Overlay District intend to deal with the foundation and settlement issues?

Anonymous said...

October 25, 2011 10:54 AM

You made a number of statements which are not correct. Please allow me to clear up some mistatements.

1. Justice Court handles criminal matters. The proposed OD ordinances will be treated as criminal matters.
2. Chancery Court handles civil matters and enforcement of covenants. Currently, HOA's work through the Civil Process of assigning liens against properties as fines.
3. The formation of the "Overlay" District does just that, it overlays the HOA. I don't for a minute believe that the HOA will supersede the OD ordinances.
4. HOA's are not publically stating anything b/c the entire OD process is confusing at best, steam rolling too quickly, and really has not put together any cohesive presentation at any of the meetings.
5. I would point to 11:22AM as an informed statement of opportunity in a depressed area for rehabbed housing to take hold.

In all of this, I have heard assumptions about rental groups opposing an HOA. Where are the documents from the FRH to the citizens calling for formation of an HOA in the area they want to control? Who are these rental groups? The more the OD is discussed the more questions arise and the curtain is pulled back.

Until all avenues of "better ideas" or less intrusive ideas are proposed, pursued and attempted the OD should be sitting as a plan in the background 3-5 years down the road.

Anonymous said...

@10:54
Who has tried to hide the fact that violating ordinances would be criminal and not civil. That's the point. You park your car on the street and you can go to jail.

That's a good thing.


You're also right that the OD's ordinances will supersede HOA covenants.

That's also a good thing.

It does not matter whether one or two or three HOAs oppose this. They will have no more voice in the matter than anyone else. They won't have the ability to veto it. They can raise hell and state their case, but after they see what is happening, they will support it.

Anonymous said...

The HOA's that are not supporting it are large enough to convince County Supervisors that votes are at stake.

Anonymous said...

October 25, 2011 12:22 PM

Your post was somewhat confusing as your reply was to a supporter of the OD. Anyway....

Are you really for criminalizing civil issues?

How is parking your car on the street an offense so downright offensive it warrants jail time?

How about we criminalize dog's fouling the air? Wait lets not stop there, you looking at me? Lets criminalize staring because you looking at me is creepy.

You want to have an OD supercede my HOA. Don't need it. The currently established HOA's have worked very hard to establish, manage, promote and enforce the community wishes. Your OD idea is smelling more and more like an opportunity for organizers to meddle in the HOA affairs.

Your line of thinking is EXACTLY why the OD should NOT be allowed. Give folks a little bit of influence/power over others and they will act like drunkards in a Whiskey plant.

Your final point about telling the larger HOA's to pound sand is again EXACTLY why they are not going to support it.

Keep making the case for NOT establishing the OD.

Anonymous said...

If the HOAs can swing votes to destroy a supervisor in an effort to protect landlords who will destroy the county's largest tax base, let them try.

Leaseholders along the north shore are the financial lifeblood for Rankin Co. The supervisors would be fools to let it turn into west Jackson.

Frankly, I'm looking forward to hearing the HOAs defend their attempts to turn northshore into Lynch Street.

Anonymous said...

Having attended the meetings and the point of superseding the covenants has never been discussed. I would be my belief that the HOA is free to enforce it covenants at anytime it can.

So the HOA will not suffer from the OD, but maybe supported in some areas where it does not have a covenant.

Again I ask have you been to any of the meetings or are you just standing around and making noise.

Anonymous said...

Yes. I've been.

Anonymous said...

HOA's have done nothing to destroy the areas you speak of; in fact, you let it happen if you live in those affected areas this OD is seeking to gain influence over.

Also, one of the HOA's I'm talking about is on the North Shore.

Nice try.

Anonymous said...

October 25, 2011 3:11 PM

You make a great point. The OD has not considered the many impacts of establishing this; the rush to get it before voters this November is obvious. Important questions and considerations have not been taken, analyzed, nor discussed in an open forum. Nor has anyone posted here, the names of these imaginary landlords you speak of.

Anonymous said...

I've been waiting to bring the North Shore into this. The HOA's on the North Shore are some of the best I've ever encountered. They really don't need an OD.

Anonymous said...

I'm still not seeing a coherent argument for allowing the northshore to deteriorate.

Do the northshore leaseholders believe turning the northshore into south Jackson will increase their property values?

Do northshore leaseholders believe deteriorating the southshore will NOT negatively impact their home values?

Anonymous said...

It would appear most people don't think the condition of surrounding neighborhoods has any impact on their home's property value. Prospective buyers DO look at other neighborhoods in the area. If you think your home is an island, you are mistaken.

Anonymous said...

October 25, 2011 4:59 PM

Do you know where Northshore is?

Before making a comment, please, please, please realize what you are saying.

Northshore is the not the affected area the backers of the OD hope to gain control over. If they did, the money on the Northshore would certainly trump any attempt.

Chris Merck said...

Anon, skewed? Not sure how but re: your rental home points. I have nothing against rental homes. Not sure that an Overlay District inhibits that. As far as buying a home with lots of foundation probs, I think that is great if one does so for renting out as homes with very severe problems are not financeable to owner occupants.
That being said, just because a home is a rental doesn't mean the owner or tenant should disregard commonly accepted ordinances of which we lack in many parts of the southshore.
Also, the OD, seemingly unbeknownst to some, protects property values thus yielding folks like you and other investors a higher return due to higher rent or more profit at the time of sale.

Anonymous said...

It won't matter where northshore is.

When the southshore goes down, it takes northshore with it.

The nightly news reports will be...

"RANKIN COUNTY OFFICIALS ARE INVESTIGATING THE FOURTH SHOOTING THIS MONTH IN THE RESERVOIR AREA. TWO PEOPLE WERE WOUNDED, ONE SERIOUSLY, IN THIS LATEST OUTBREAK OF VIOLENCE AT THE ONCE QUIET AND POPULAR RESERVOIR AREA."

Anonymous said...

Fearmongering, really?

Anonymous said...

@8:18 Head in the sand.

I've seen it happen. And it happens in fewer than 10 years time.

You will be surprised at how quickly the Rez will devolve. Everything is in place.

It will be ugly and fascinating. It is on the verge.

Anonymous said...

Its on the verge of growing in the newer neighborhoods.

We will enjoy the expansion of Old Fannin, the new sidewalks, the continued investment in Flowood, Hugh Ward's continued community atmostphere, and the lake while you live in fear.

Sorry to hear your glass is half full.

Anonymous said...

@ 10:45
Already overbuilt.
Traffic congestion on Fannin is intolerable and dangerous.
Hugh Ward Parkway is already a roller coaster filling up with potholes because it was poorly engineered.
And the stupid mayor of Flowood (who didn't have his city prepared for the migration of south Jackson to his city) says he wants more residential development.
Every mistake a city can make is being made in this part of Rankin County.
Ten years from now you folks with the rose colored glasses will look back and understand what went wrong.

Anonymous said...

October 26, 2011 12:53 PM

1. They are widening Fannin to four lanes with lights.
2. Take a picture of these so-called pot-holes.
3. Flowood does not annex residential so why would it expand it. They like it the way it is, fewer voters.
4. You have never stood up until someone proposes a bad idea; now you are upset? What have you done in the past to correct the issues at hand. You can keep your poorly managed neighborhood without an HOA and complain in your morning coffee and bitch at your bridge game, b/c your comments are unfounded and disingenuous.
5. In ten years, I'll have my farm. With my own lake far away from yahoos like you.

Anonymous said...

@ 12:53

1. They said that three years ago.
2. No way to post it here, but the patches are there to see if you look...plus the roller coaster on a road that is less than three years old. The subsurface was poorly prepared, ask any engineer.
3. Mayor said he wanted the development along the new parkway to be residential and not commercial.
4. I have never stood up for a bad idea.
5. You sound like one of the slumlords who are gaining control of the Rez.

Anonymous said...

Nope. Guessed wrong.

I'm a homeowner (not on Spillway) who doesn't want to clean up your mess and responsibility that you have let fester for years. Period.

Anonymous said...

@ 2:54 You're not being asked to do so.

Anonymous said...

Then why the need for an Overlay District?

Anonymous said...

October 26, 2011 1:59 PM

OK, I'm going to test your knowledge of the complexities you misrepresent that the OD can solve.

Lets take Hugh Ward Blvd. How would the OD benefit that particular situation you claim is developing?

Be careful, your answer will shine a light if you get it wrong.

Anonymous said...

Hey Chris, our resident RE expert, will you please answer 4:02's question, again? But he wants it specific to Hugh Ward, for whatever reason. As if Lakeland doesn't exist, nor Spillway.

Anonymous said...

@ 1:59 The OD would not fix the problems with Hugh Ward Parkway.

The comment was in response to a post that tried to suggest everybody ought to be happy with a half full glass.

Anonymous said...

So 4:30PM that would be a straw man?

Exposing it as such illustrates the lengths the supporters of the OD will go to with fear mongering and tales of great dilapidation across the Rez area if the OD is not passed.

Anonymous said...

@ 5:01 No it was not a straw man.

I'm not sure you are following this.

Perhaps you could simply state why you're opposed to the OD and save some time.

Anonymous said...

Hello 1:59 - As Hugh Ward has no houses facing it there is nothing to fix as far as housing. Their problem is the grass growing on either side and behind the housing. Not exactly what I think of as being neat. I believe that it may have already influenced new buyers to the area to look else where.

The example you chose is not a great example of what is being discussed. In fact Spillway, Grants Ferry and Old Fanning roads are not great examples either. The only thing they have in common is that the run through the OD area.

The new subdivisions off of Hugh Ward who have strong covenants and HOAs are having issues enforcing them or the would not have boats and cars stored in the streets.

It wont be long before they also enjoy having renters from the apartments and then they will have the same issues as all of the older subdivisions except that they have strong covenants.

Anonymous said...

Wrong on Hugh Ward. It is funded by an escrow on the road due to the fact the builders did not bond the road with the county. There is a tremendous amount of dues that go into maintaining that road.

Has anyone here talked about financing? I have not heard ONE mention of it.

To 11:34PM, perhaps you should take the time to read from the top. There are plenty of reasons for opposition and NO coherent response from supporters.

The only response from supporters has been to throw problems without solutions. Oh there is the parking issue - oooooo a parked car on the street. No! Not that! Someone call the LAW!!!

Who do you call? Reservoir, RSO? Who will fund that? How will it be funded?

Anonymous said...

7:41, have you not read ANY of Chris' posts? Logic, reason and facts. That's all he's talked about.

The only thing I keep hearing from those who are against it: 1)doesn't affect me, my subdivision is fine, thank you (aka head in sand); 2)don't need more gubment. If I want my grass 10 feet tall, so be it.

Anonymous said...

Chris? Logic? Reason? Facts?

Lets see...

Stating the obvious, the needs, concerns, oversight, direction, and vision for our Rankin county side of the rez -considered for this potential Overlay district- are in no way being addressed due to our unique predicament.

What are the obvious needs, concerns, oversight, direction and vision? Anyone?

Thus the need for an Overlay district...basically a set of ordinances protecting this and only this finite area of the Rez.

Huh? Yeah real logical. You deserve what you get if you listen to drivel like this. No substance, all fluff.

So who is going to pay for Policing these ordinances you propose? Taxes, Dues, Dues from Existing HOA's? Answer a real question and stop huffin' and puffin'.

Anonymous said...

October 27, 2011 9:15 AM

Are you a Democrat who believes that more ordinances and policing will solve social ills?

Are you such a strong Democrat that you will impose your twisted, unfounded beliefs upon others?

Finally, you must be for ObamaCare because, under the "logic" you claim, the few that are suffering should impose their will upon the majority to create a level playing field. Oh, and the Majority should pay for it.

Damn Democrats.

Anonymous said...

Where is most of the commercial property located in the proposed od? Answer , Hugh Ward .

Could a skating rink or fast food business be built by St. Peter's or Bridgetown, or any other c-2 property in the od? answer, yes

Anonymous said...

7:41 Hugh Ward is funded by an escrow to pay the development costs and the county is responsible for the maintenance.

If you had attended the meetings you would have heard a discussion of what the expected costs and how the OD would be funded. The cost to draw lines on a map is very small. The cost to enforce any ordinances of which in the beginning is none is also very small. The costs to rezone a property very small.

9:15 I don't want 7:41 living next door to me if he is going to let his grass grow 10 foot tall.

10:09 you are a dumb a**. What the OD is is attempt to allow the majority the ability to protect their property from a dumb a** like you.

11:22 First I think Old Fanning Road has more commercial property where the water park area was than on Hugh Ward.

If a property is zoned as C2, then it is possible that a skating rink or fast food business could get a permit from the county. I am not sure of the process. But, I am sure that non would be issued if Wood Brown had any say in the matter.

Anonymous said...

Actually 3:19PM Hugh Ward is funded by a PID. No county money is involved. If they are performing the maintenance it is at the expense of the homeowners along Hugh Ward. You are incorrect about the County maintaining the road.

My grass I assure you looks better than yours.

Resorting to name calling is not gaining you any credibility, especially since my yard looks better than yours.

Why not publish your figures? Afraid that the numbers might scare the voting public. Or, is this discussion held for meetings only?

You are hiding without providing any real answers to questions people have. Valid questions.

Take your name calling and attend your meeting. I assure you discussions will be had at the appropriate levels to illustrate the type of management/government you are seeking to impose.

Anonymous said...

October 27, 2011 3:19 PM

Want to divulge what "very small" is? Or are you afraid of the general public now hearing the OD WILL COST MONEY THAT WILL REQUIRE TAXING? Have you counted the number of homes along Spillway you want to impose your ordinance upon and calculated that cost? I imagine it is minimal, but if you spread it across a district, it is really minimal for you.

Anonymous said...

The only person that has mentioned 10 foot grass is a supporter of the OD.

In fact, every comment is about the section of the Rez between Fannin and Grants Ferry, North of Spillway.

THAT is the area the OD seeks to gain control over.

THAT is what this is about.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Anonymous said...

3:39 - You momma will be proud to know that your yard is so great.

The known figures of cost is zero (0) additional for the code enforcement personnel at the county. It has been discussed at the meetings and the question has been asked.

No one is hiding that is why we have the meetings. So valid question can be answered.

There is no change to the type of government either at the county or the PRV.

It appears that you are the name caller and the one that has his head in the sand.

3:19 - "very small" costs is what it is. When the supervisors say no increase in personal to enforce the ordinances that the board of supervisors make for the OD, then the cost would be the gasoline to investigate, document and notify the offender of the ordinance to appear before the BOS is what they are presently getting paid to do.
No count has been made of the number of homes, but if needed I am sure we could get it from the tax collector. At this point the OD area has not been defined and no ordinances have been approved by the BOS.

3:53 - The last time I checked Bell Grove, North Woods and Hidden Hills were on the south side of Spillway along with several other subdivisions.

The OD area will be a special area within the county that is urban in nature and has needs that differ from the other parts of the county.
That is why the OD is being requested in order for the BOS to enact ordinances apply only to OD, nothing more - nothing less.

Anonymous said...

I'm posting this for my Gram who lives on leasehold land that is being considered here. She wanted to ask a question and I said I would post it.

She would like to know, "What will happen to older folks on fixed incomes and limited mobility who cannot mow their yards?"

She and her bridge club were all asking this question as a lot of older people live in the areas discussed just above.

She wants to know if she "Would be arrested and put in jail or forced to spend her food and medicine money that she cannot afford to cut her grass" to the ordinance requirements.

Anonymous said...

@ 9:07 People who cannot maintain their homes and whose family won't help them.

Interesting question.

I guess it pays to be a good parent and grandparent. I certainly wouldn't allow my parents or grandparents to live in a slum.

Tell her she currently lives in a neighborhood that is relatively safe with a low crime rate. Gunfire and burglaries are rare. The object of all of this is to keep it that way for as long as possible. Tell here there were neighborhoods in Jackson that were just as safe as this one ten years ago, but are now dangerous and where break ins and shootings are nightly occurrences.

Ask her how many bridge clubs she knows about in the Alta Woods section of Jackson or along McFarland Blvd or within two miles of Lanier school.

Ask her why the members of the bridge club aren't leading the charge to prevent decay in the neighborhoods. Ask her why the children and grandchildren of the members of the bridge club are doing everything they can to improve their living condition.

And while you're at it, cut the damned grass!

Anonymous said...

9:07
Based on your concern for your grandmother and older people I am certain you would mow your grandmothers yard and probably form a group to help other old people with their problems.

I am a willing worker and wait for more info from you and others if we need to volunteer. We all need to help,not just complain. Too often we fuss and gripe, but do not want to be part of a solution.

Anonymous said...

I think I'm gonna call Howard and ask him to do a Channel 3 story on how supporters of the OD at the Rez believe the Rez is soon to become South Jackson.

That should be great for home prices.

Anonymous said...

So you wouldn't arrest elderly people who have no family here or are widowed?

Furthermore, your solution is to garner volunteers to deal with this situation. Hmmmm. So why the need for an Overlay District?

Under your incredible insightful logic, why not just volunteer to clean up your community? You are right, the community should volunteer to clean up the insightful blemishes and not rely on imposing their inability to do so on the rest of the population.

Thank you!

Anonymous said...

October 28, 2011 11:09 AM

Are you for real? My gram is in failing health. Pretty callous.

Chris Merck said...

Hugh Ward...Let's see...
As someone already beat me to this this, I will just rehash and expound upon it.
Yes, the Hugh has wonderful subdivisions all along it. Yes, they have strong HOA's. And yes they have a fund that administers the mowing of the grass along the Hugh among other things.
However, an overlay district is not simply geared towards residential matters. That is one component of this one being discussed. An OD also addresses land use, zoning, and other matters.
Hugh Ward in particular has massive tracts of land at the corner of Spillway (the Southshore area referenced) that is zoned by our county b/c it's situated in the county, not prv or flowood, as is a lot of the land on the southsidr of Spillway. Since our county has zoning ordinances that must apply to all parts of the county and aren't really area specific, so to speak, these tracts of land don't have very in-depth or specific guidelines as to development, usage, signage, etc.
Why is this significant? Because as the previous poster stated, these spots, adjacent to St.Peters, Bridgetowne, Gerritts Landing, and the northern most subdivision of the Pinelands, can be developed to all kinds of things that quite simply a large group of folks wouldn't be in favor of.
Things that could affect the property values, traffic, and aesthetics of the area.
Assume that folks didn't have a problem with the businesses or developments that could build on those spots? Well, our zoning that again is by the county has limits to things that are important like buffers, green areas, signs, etc., that those adjacent to the businesses would expect.
A properly done overlay district addresses these concerns.

Anonymous said...

@ 11:54 Because we can't go on private property and bring the homes up to standard.

That's the problem that would be addressed by the OD. Slumlords would be forced to maintain their property. There is no other way to address that.

There are slumlords who are letting their business stock (residential dwellings) fall apart because they have no reason to care if the district turns into a slum. It just means more money for them.

Hope that answers you question.

Anonymous said...

@ 11:09 If you gram is in failing health and you're not helping her, how can you call someone else callous?

You are the most cruel person I know.

Anonymous said...

You sir are out of line. She was asking the question. Your personal attack is just that, personal and uncalled for.

Anonymous said...

Why not start a Zoning PAC Chris? You and volunteers could influence the County to help out if you are so inclined to.

Anonymous said...

October 28, 2011 12:52 PM

Have you bothered to ask if you could volunteer to help them keep up the properties? I assume you can write, although you do dodge every question put to you, the question is have you sent a letter asking them if you could volunteer to clean up your community?

I'm going to guess you won't answer any questions except with excuses.

Anonymous said...

@ 1:03 It is you who are out of line.

Using your "gram" in an argument to support slum lords.

Please

Anonymous said...

@ 12:52

Let me get this straight.

A slumlord has gone into the business of leasing his property.

He profits from that business and it does not matter if the property falls apart.

And you want me to ask the slum lord if I can spend my time and money to bring his business property up to standards so he can continue to make a profit without spending any capital.

Have I missed something?

Anonymous said...

1:07 - As you like answering questions with questions, have you volunteered to clean up the property or you just one to sit back cast stones at everything? Might I ask your excuse?

1:05 - what is a zoning PAC? Getting the county to declare a OD is how the county can help to retain property values through zoning and ordinances. Most of the homeowners will volunteer to help write the ordinances and the county will enforce them.

12:54 - I agree with you and I think that is time that his gram sell the house and move to a care facility for the rest of her golden years and spend his inheritance.

For most of the comments here asking questions with questions is to come to the meetings, standup and ask your questions I am sure that you will receive answers.

Anonymous said...

11:51 - That would be great and have him start at your house, as it a shinning example of a well maintained house and them have him tour Bell Grove and North Woods along with locations along the south shore of the PRV so that you can say that the blight areas found here, which is the results of slumlords maintaining their houses, will never reach next door to you.

Anonymous said...

11:54 Can we count on you to be one of the volunteers?

Maybe you could help clean up our community, you do live in the area don't you?

Anonymous said...

For the record:

1. I bought her the house. On the NS on the water.
2. I take care of the expenses.
3. I even take care of the house with my bare hands.

You still have not answered her question. I'll let her know how you feel. I'm sure she will be thrilled to share your answers, or lack there of.

Anonymous said...

October 28, 2011 4:43 PM

I already volunteer in our brand new community. I help with the HOA. So, sir, I would ask, do I need to now volunteer in YOUR neighborhood?

Anonymous said...

4:47 - You have answered the question, she would have no problem as you are the owner. You take care of the property and your gram. That makes you a great guy.

Anonymous said...

4:49 - It great to see that you are such a great volunteer, but your subdivision is not an island. You are welcome come to the meetings and volunteer some of the great wisdom in resolving the issues in other neighborhoods around you.

Anonymous said...

@ 4:47 Then your "gram's" question is answered. If she allows the house and yard to fall into disrepair she will be mailed a notice to bring the home into compliance. The methods of enforcement have not been set. There are plenty of options.

1. The county mows the yard and assesses the cost to the leaseholder fee. or

2. She is ordered to appear before justice court where she can be fined and possibly put in jail. or...the most likely...

3. She receives a letter notifying her that the home is out of compliance and she will have 30 days to bring it into compliance or face additional legal issues that might include #2 above.

Hope that helps.

Now

Why did you provide her a home here? Why not something near Poindexter Park in Jackson? That's what I don't understand. You chose this area for a reason. But you are fighting the effort to maintain it. You're raising objections to efforts to make it a better place to live. I don't understand that attitude.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe we've devolved into talking about grandmothers. Or, as they say in Yankeeland, Gram.

But I have to say I find it funny that your poor Gram is worried about upkeep on a house on the water, one that she doesn't own, and therefore doesn't have to maintain.

There are so many things wrong with that story I'm not sure where to start. However, if your Gram is able, I highly suggest she (and you, since you bought the sucker) attend the OD meetings and fully vet your grass question to them. Bring the bridge club, too. The more educated about this, the better.

Chris Merck said...

Anon with the 'Gram' post.
First, I'd suggest people who pose silly posts about hypothetical or reall grams in need should just think about their posts before posting such silly things.
Next, I'd advise you as an able bodied person to mow her yard and while you are at it, plant her some flowers and possibly redo her flower beds so she will have a much deserved smile on her face when she looks at her home.
Another option is to pay a landscaping/mowing company to cut the grass biweekly. Perhaps a young tween/teen entrepreneur is around to employ like is the case in most subdivisions.
That being said, assuming this is a real situation and assuming she is too old or feeble to care for herself or her property, I'd suggest she do like anyone else in her place and ask her kids and you, her grandkid, to allow her to move in with them so that you or your parents can look after her as she did for your parent and you when your parent and you were young as unable to care for yourselves.
Assuming this is not an option you nor your parent , assuming he/she is alive, deem viable, then I would suggest she do like anyone does in her place. That is, put the home up for sale and take the equity from that sell plus whatever you are so graciously willing to contribute and move into a property that provides outside and yard maintenance. A few in our area... Geritts Landing, Wicklow at Castlewoods, townhomes and condos off Windrose Point, just to name a few.
All this being said, I look forward to future posts on this Overlay District concept gravitate back towards the real issue.

Anonymous said...

@ Chris

I don't know if the guy is telling the truth or not...but...IF he/she is, he is extremely interested in the real issue.

According to the post a home was purchased for an elderly relative. Eventually the elderly relatives will vacate the home due to illness or death.

There are three options.
1 Sell the home
2 Move into the home
3 Lease it and enjoy the profits therefrom.

See where it's going?

Anonymous said...

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20111029/NEWS/110290351/-3M-awarded-build-trails?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home

Flowood coming to Hugh Ward with new investment.

Wooo Hooo! Flowood is awesome! Can't wait to be able to ride my bike all over.

Anonymous said...

The dialogue on this blog reveals there is a lot of confusion about the intent of the overlay as well as HOA's, On street parking, criminal activity, rental property, etc.

The "overlay" movement is an attempt to identify a specific area on the Rankin Couty side of the Reservoir that needs more consistent regulations regarding land use and property maintenance. This area includes property ownerd and governed by PRV and privately owned property governed by County regulations and ordinances.

Existing restrictive covenants will continue to be enforced by HOAs. Meanwhile persons living on PRV property in neighborhoods that do not have adequate restrictive covenents or an organized neigehborhood organization will be able to call the county to enforce property maintenance rules that have already been adopted by the County.

We have very few undeveloped commercially zoned areas in the proposed "overlay" area; but all of these are adjacent to low-density residential neighborhoods that would be negatively impacted by certain uses such as skaing rinks, some fast food restaurants or service stations. For example, the vacant land adjacent to and behind Bridgetown and the Villas as well as the vacent land where Avalon deadends on Hugh Ward are zoned C2 which allows almost all commercial uses that are first allowed in C3 districts. The zoning overlay area would simply identify certain uses that could be approved by the BOS as a conditional rather than being permitted without a hearing. This would allow the Board to make a determination on a case-by-case basis in a pubic hearing and would allow the public to comment "for or against" these uses.

If you live or own property on the Southshore, your property and your neighborhood would probably benefit from this effort. It is not essential that neighborhoods on the Northshore be involved as long as their Restrictive Covenants are working.

As for rental property, it cannot legally be restricted or eliminated. Most cities like Flowood (and PRV) have a rental inspection regulation that requires the property to be in compliance with building regs.

Not sure about the "on-street" parking. Fire codes do not allow the street to be blocked. Other than that I do not see any problems.

As far as "criminal" vs "civil" --violation of zoning and property maintenance regs are considered a misdeamenor. Due notice is required as well as adequate time to comply. It is true that if the overlay is agreed to, individuals would no longer have to sue their neighbors to get resolution of these issues. That seems to be a good thing!

Chris Merck said...

@11:21
Yes, agree...kinda same I stated in latter part of my comment.

Anonymous said...

I've read through this entire thread tonight. Does anyone really know what the Overlay District is?

Anonymous said...

@ 9:16 What it is - The overlay district at this point, is a discussion of a request that the county zone part of the county in such it in a way that it enabled to adopt ordinances that apply only to the overlay district.

These ordinances will be used maintain the appearance, use and value of properties in the area.

The exact area is yet to be defined. But at the meetings a map was presented with some lines drawn for discussion purposes.

As you can see from the thread, we have a lot of "the cart before the horse".

Anonymous said...

You are right. It would appear the lines are retreating quickly from the original proposal.

It is not essential that neighborhoods on the Northshore be involved as long as their Restrictive Covenants are working.

Why would you want to include new neighborhoods with working Restrictive Covenants? You have made the case for Northshore, why would it be any different for Turtle Ridge or Farmington or Avalon? The covenants work in these neighborhoods without interference from the County or PRV or the proposed Overlay District. It would appear to be overkill of administration in areas that frankly don't need it.

Anonymous said...

Why wouldn't neighborhoods with working covenants want to be a part of the OD?

It will just strengthen them, make them better.

There is no "interference."

There are no negatives to the OD.

Anonymous said...

@ 6:49 The key word is "working". Today in order to enforce a covenant it could take years and that is only if the HOA pushed it in the courts.

It is my belief and with the constant changing in officers of the HOAs all of the new neighborhoods will fall into the same trap as the older ones.

With the OD you would have ordinances which by the way may cover the same things as a covenant enforce by the county.

This would give the newer neighborhoods an option that they don't have today and the older ones an option that they never will have without the OD.

There is no retreating as far as I can see, it just that trying to explain a concept of an overlay district to someone whose mind is made up, is difficult.

So, my question is: Why not?

Anonymous said...

October 31, 2011 12:41 PM

The reason is: we don't want more oversight from another governing body that we don't need in the first place. The affected areas at the Rez appear to want/need it. Keep it there, leave us out. What don't you get about that?

Anonymous said...

@ 6:57

Good. If you "don't need it" it won't affect you.

If you think "another governing body" is being created, you need to learn what this is about.

There is no "another governing body" being created.

Why not learn something what is being discussed rather than posting in ignorance?

Anonymous said...

@6:57 I will go to the meeting for US and ask that they leave US out, but I don't know who US is. Just identify the subdivision and I am sure US will not be a part of OD.